Published by The Heart of Carolina Jazz Society on 08 Jan 2010 at 09:18 am

Forum

25 Comments

25 Responses to “Forum”

1. kg on 12 Jan 2010 at 10:53 am #

   Favorite Big band Vocalists? That’s a topic I would love to hear others comment on. My personal favorites are Ella Fitzgerald, Peggy Lee, Jo Stafford.

2. Gregg Gelb on 13 Jan 2010 at 8:08 pm #

   I have such respect for the arrangers of the Big Bands. History says that Fletcher Henderson, Don Redman, and Duke Ellington are the early masters that most arrangers learned from. After them there were so many great ones such as Billy May, Sy Oliver, Neal Hefti…and who am I missing? But I want to share a quick bit of information; right here in Sanford resides a master of arranging, Paul Kelly. (He and I are writing arrangements for the Jazz Encounters Classical Music concerts in Sanford on April 17 and 18). So, I called Paul today and asked how his arrangements are coming along. He said, “Well, I sat down last night at about 7:30pm and started my second arrangement and by 9:30pm I was done.”

   Do you know how quick that is!!! It takes me weeks – months to do an arrangement. Paul did an arrangement in two hours! Well, he did earn a living as a staff arranger for the Airmen of Note. That’s how good he is and I can’t wait for you all to hear his stuff!

   Supposedly, Nelson Riddle wrote some of the great charts he did for Sinatra in a cab on the way to the recording session w/ Frank. Unbelievable!

3. cmvb on 14 Jan 2010 at 2:54 pm #

   What a treat it is to have big band jazz right here in Sanford!

   My baptism into the bbj world came in the early 1960’s when the owner of the store where I bought records invited me to attend a juried collegiate jazz orchestra competition at the Univ. of Notre Dame. It was a 3 day event with about 20 university jazz orchestras attending. As I remember, most of the Big Ten schools were present along with schools from the East Coast, Missouri, and Texas.

   I do not remember the names of the judges, with one exception–Clark Terry. I was introduced to Terry by my record store owner friend and somehow became Terry’s gopher for those 3 days and again the next year. What fun it was to listen to the music and also have the opportunity to hear the judges discussing what was being heard. It was a big step in the development of my musical ear.

   That’s my little story and I’m stickin’ to it.

4. Gregg Gelb on 15 Jan 2010 at 4:25 pm #

   Dear cmvb,

   Cool story..I think you may get a kick out of this too.

   I played w/ Clark back in the 90’s when a band I was in, the Unifour Jazz Ensemble, played in Carrboro with Clark as guest artist

   Click this link on to get the you tube video…Clark plays then I take the first tenor solo…

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6se5_JRvgU

5. billf4 on 19 Jan 2010 at 9:08 am #

   Re band singers I would put Jo Stafford right up top … the of purest of voices and always on key. Well,not always. Look for her parodies with husband Paul Weston (Darlene and Jonathan Edwards) and you’ll understand. Once- more than a few years back- I heard the Clooney sisters with the Tony Pastor band. Rosemary was their soloist for a year after Betty left and then went on to her own career.

   …and for most delectable – Helen O’Connell of the Jimmy Dorsey Orchestra.

6. cmvb on 23 Jan 2010 at 8:24 am #

   Gregg,

   Neat – love youtube. Your hair was longer and darker back then. So was mine and I had more of it.

   I was wrong in my earlier statement. My first big band (not very jazzy) experience was in the mid-50’s when my parents took me along to see Guy Lombardo. I think I was more interested in the food than the music.

7. Gregg Gelb on 10 Feb 2010 at 9:58 pm #

   Hey, let’s get this rolling….

   How about sharing your thoughts about the big band’s by discussing your favorite big band tune of all time or favorite big band soloist?

   I guess many would say “Sing, Sing, Sing”

   But I also love Duke Ellington’s “Crescendo and Diminuendo in Blue” from Newport. After Gonsalves’ amazing 27 choruses, the band takes it up even more.. What excitement!

8. falconbird on 17 Feb 2010 at 8:07 pm #

   Why aren’t more of you responding – including band members? Come on! Please.

   I agree with Gregg’s comments about “Sing, Sing, Sing” and Paul Gonsalves’ marathon on “Crescendo and Diminuendo.” The Basie Band and their exuberant ” One O’Clock Jump” plus Ben Webster’s driving solo on Cotton Tail with the Duke Ellington Orchestra are also among my favorites.

   Incidentally, re “Sing, Sing, Sing” – Jess Stacy’s sparse solo during the Goodman/Stacy interlude has always been my favorite piano solo – standing out for his use of space, and playing cool when jazz was hot.

9. adhocbflat1 on 18 Feb 2010 at 9:11 am #

   The Heart of Carolina Jazz Orchestra: The best big band I have ever played in! If you haven’t heard these guys, get ye to one of their appearances immediately!
   My first experience with a big band was playing in one in high school. We were actually the first “jazz band” to be formed in our school, out in Montana in the 50’s. We played mostly old Art Dedrick arrangements and thought them pretty cool but, when I was a senior, I went to the All State Festival in Missoula, Montana (U of M then) and attended several concerts featuring the big band from the music school, the Bluehawks, lead by Don Lawrence. I thought I had died and gone to heaven! These guys just blew me away. I received a scholarship to attend the music school and upon my arrival there I went right to Don and asked him to be in the band. They had lost their piano player and couldn’t find another to take his place (Arnie Carruthers, no wonder!) so he said I could play with them until they did find one. I played guitar. I stayed with them 2 years…..I think the happiest 2 years of my life. For a jazzer, there ain’t nothin’ like a big band!
   I ditto Gregg’s comments on arrangers. Don Lawrence, mentioned above, did all the arrangements for the band (except for a couple of Woody Herman charts, like Early Autumn). He made me appreciate what it takes to write a “chart” for the band. My favorite arranger of all time is Clare Fisher. Also I like Bill Holman a lot.

10. jazzylady on 18 Feb 2010 at 5:17 pm #

    Nelson Riddle’s estate issued a CD of Riddle’s original music: Buddy DeFranco Plays Nelson Riddle’s Cross Country Suite. Cross Country Suite won a Grammy in 1958 for Best Original Instrumental Composition.The CD was released in 2008.

    I grew up in the Big Band era and remember the NYC movie theatres(the Strand, the Capitol, the Paramount, for example) that featured big name big bands with the “boy” and “girl” singers in the stage shows that followed the movie. The marquees along Broadway advertised the band and band leaders in big letters.They were clearly the big attraction.

    The high school I attended in a northern NJ suburb of NYC had an amazing award-winning marching band that also played band concerts of Glenn Miller charts. We all learned to dance to big band music. I also listened to live radio broadcasts of big bands from hotel ballrooms across the country. These were all white bands. There were notable black bands,of course, but the crossover into mainstream white America was limited, if at all. I
    also listened to live radio broadcasts from the Apollo Theatre in Harlem.

11. George Baehne on 19 Feb 2010 at 10:54 am #

    I consider myself so lucky to have lived thru the big band era and to have seen and danced to many of them. My first encounter was my friend taking me to see Tommy Dorsey at the Paramount theater in NYC in 1941. We arrived during the break and got seats in the box just hanging over the stage. We watched the film ‘Second Chorus’ with Artie Shaw and as it was ending could observe the musicians taking their seats in the sunken stage. The stage starts to rise the theme song playing and here comes TD with the spotlight on him rising up right in front of me so close I could almost touch him. What a thrill for a high school kid. Right behind him at the piano was Joe Bushkin. I don’t remember Frank Sinata or the rest of the show.
    Fast forward to 1967…

    My date and I are at the Riverboat in the Empire State Building dancing our feet off to Harry James, at the table next to us were 6 or 8 peaple. I said to my date ‘that’s Joe Bushkin at the table’. She did not know the name when who comes over but Harry himself to confirm it with a hardy greeting and conversation that we could overhear. I was amazed that I would remember Bushkin after all those years.

    Back to 1941.. Living close to NYC I managed to get into the city after that everytime the programs changed at the Paramount and Strand theaters and would make a double header day at both getting my fill of bands till I graduated HS and got int the navy in 43.
    And all this cost 40 cents, a movie and a band. Lucky Me….

12. Gregg Gelb on 19 Feb 2010 at 11:07 am #

    George,

    Thank you for your story… this brings the history back to life

13. jazzylady on 19 Feb 2010 at 11:08 pm #

    After the big bands, Joe Bushkin and his trio was a popular mainstay at the Embers, a great piano room in NY. I think he also had a radio show live from the Embers, as well.
    He might have also made several television appearances on the Sunday night Ed Sullivan show. I definitely remember seeing him on TV.

    George mentions Artie Shaw in the movie at the Paramount. Hollywood found a way to include popular bandleaders and their bands in nightclub scenes in the films of the ’40s and ’50s. Big bands were the soundtrack of World War Two. When Glenn Miller, who had joined the military, was declared missing in action and presumed dead, it was a national tragedy.And Artie Shaw, himself, was a very interesting character. His recording of “Begin the Beguine” was a sensational hit. He married that North Carolina beauty, Ava Gardner, wrote a book or two and had a reputation as a highly intelligent but nasty sonofabitch who could play great clarinet. Harry James married Betty Grable, a Hollywood star with legs
    who was the pin-up queen of that era. His records were very popular and just seemd to be heard everywhere. The music was welcome and acceptable across a wide spectrum of the population.

14. Gregg Gelb on 20 Feb 2010 at 10:13 pm #

    Jazzylady mentions Artie Shaw….

    …for those of us who did not grow up in the big band Era, it was fortunate that Artie lived a long life because right up until a few years ago he offered excellent insights and criticism about jazz.

    I have wondered about reading his bio, “the Trouble with Cinderalla” Has anybody read it, and what do you think about it?

15. falconbird on 22 Feb 2010 at 8:46 pm #

    I read the Shaw autobiography some years ago. He was extremely intelligent and a fine writer. He also was a gifted musician with a complicated personality who had a long and turbulent life. Pretty good combination for a book! There’s also an Oscar-winning documentary – Time Is All You’ve Got, (1985) including interviews with Shaw, footage of his performances and discussions with his friends. No DVD as yet.

    A few items of interest :
    He was the first white bandleader to feature a black vocalist – Billie Holiday.

    Shaw loved music but hated stardom which is why he disbanded and departed for Mexico following the success of “Begin the Beguine.” A quote –
    ” I can’t understand these guys who just have to have your autograph. I asked one of them ‘What do you do when you get home, take it out and look at it?’

    Shaw was enough of a perfectionist that in 1983 he selected the leader of his “ghost band” – clarinetist Dick Johnson – and conducted the opening rehearsals. It turns out that Johnson’s musical inspiration was Shaw’s appearance in the movie Second Chorus.

    The band still tours. I saw them in Clayton a few years ago.

16. Gregg Gelb on 23 Feb 2010 at 9:28 am #

    Thanks for letting us know bout the documentary “Time Is All You’ve Got,”

    I’ll be on the look out for it. Maybe someone in the forum can help us find it, and then we can possibly have a showing of it prior to the dance.

    PS I’ve also often wondered what all the fuss is about over getting someone’s autograph!

17. jazzylady on 25 Feb 2010 at 12:02 am #

    Time Is All You’ve Got is on DVD. Netflix has it. Might be available for purchase on Amazon.

    Since we’re talking about Artie Shaw, what about that other but different kind of master of the clarinet, Benny Goodman? He, too, was a major player (every pun intended) in featuring black musicians in a white band. Billie Holiday, Lionel Hampton, Teddy Wilson. At least, it was start and a brave one, considering the time and the threat of economic consequences.
    Question: Are we using band and orchestra interchangeably?

18. Gregg Gelb on 25 Feb 2010 at 9:35 am #

    Oh great!

    “Time Is All You’ve Got is on DVD. Netflix has it. Might be available for purchase on Amazon.”

    And, yes Orchestra or Big Band is an interchangeable description of large jazz ensembles..

19. jazzylady on 26 Feb 2010 at 2:15 am #

    Checked Amazon re “Time Is All You’ve Got” DVD. No go. Seems that Netflix is the only game in town.

20. George Baehne on 26 Feb 2010 at 10:09 am #

    I see we are starting to get some interesting action so I’ll stick my nose in once more. After my first encounter with with Tommy Dorsey (mentioned in my first posting) the next program at the Paramount was Harry James. In Peter J. Levenson’s book ‘Trumpet Blues, the life of Harry James’ he claims that that program included the movie ‘Second Chorus’ and that the band inclued strings during that appearence. I’m afraid he is mistaken on this point. I have seen HJ seven times (dance 4 times, concert 3) including his 25 anniversary concert at Carnegie Hall and the band never had the string section in my encounters.

    Back to Tommy Dorsey. Year 1953, Wildwood, NJ, TD is appearing at a local supper club. About 1 AM I’m sitting in a small diner a block or so from the club when Tommy comes in a sits in the stool next to me. I nudge a young lady seated on my left and inform her of the fact. Her reply, ‘Who’s that?’ How fleeting can fame be.

21. Gregg Gelb on 26 Feb 2010 at 10:45 am #

    George,

    I’m glad you point out the error in the recent bio of HJ by Levensin..

    I read a recent History of Jazz by Ted Gioia.. he writes that of Thelonious Monk was born in Rocky Mountain, NC wrong..he was born in Rocky Mount!

    And I also like you’re comment about ‘how fleeting fame can be” How true…! I think the the whole fame thing is blown way out of proportion..

22. jazzylady on 26 Feb 2010 at 2:27 pm #

    Harry James was generally considered the most popular bandleader in the early 40’s. His big hit, “A Sleepy Lagoon,” was on everybody’s radio all the time. I’m almost certain it was an instrumental;however, I remember lyrics but who sang them? Helen Forrest was the Harry James girl singer, but I recall a smooth male voice singing that song. A bit of trivia:
    Harry James dubbed trumpet for Kirk Douglas in the film, “Young Man with a Horn.”

    Great big difference between fame(often undeserved) and talent. So many really talented musicians who never got anywhere near fame and far from fortune.

23. falconbird on 06 Mar 2010 at 8:34 am #

    It turns out that the appearance of the Artie Shaw ghost band in Clayton (2007) mentioned in my earlier post was one of the last with Dick Johnson as leader. Shortly afterwards he retired due to ill health. Dick passed away this January at the age of 84 and will be missed by his fans and fellow musicians in New England and across the country. The Artie Shaw Orchestra still tours, led by Rich Chiaraluce since 2008.

    Incidentally, in researching all this I found an interesting site (www.bigbandlibrary) that covers the itinerary of touring big bands and a whole lot of other good stuff.

    Here’s a Dick Johnson story, taken from “Jazz Anecdotes,” bassist Bill Crow’s very funny book:
    When Dick became director of the Shaw orchestra, he called a supplier to order music folders with “The Artie Shaw Orchestra” embossed on each. As he assumed that everyone had heard of Shaw, he didn’t spell the name.

    Now Dick’s accent was pure Brockton, MA. When the folders arrived, beautifully printed on each one was “THE OTTIE SHORE ORCHESTRA.”

    He kept them.

24. Gregg Gelb on 06 Mar 2010 at 10:18 am #

    Good One!

    And, it may be interesting to know that Dick Johnson and Paul Kelly were good friends. Paul is arranging four pieces for our April 17 and 18th “Jazz Encounters Classical Music” concerts. Paul wrote pieces that featured Dick back when Paul was a student at Berklee College of Music.

    When I first moved to Sanford as Visiting Artist at CCCC, I heard stories of Paul and what a great musiican he was…It turned out he lived right down the street from me, and he was a home builder.

    I kept plugging away to find out more about him, finally got to know him a few years ago, and then started getting him to let us play his big band arrangements. They are great …He was employed as staff arranger with the Airmen of Note. We have his charts that he wrote for them on Them There Eyes, Speak Low, and Deep River. And the new ones for the upcoming concerts are perfect.

25. George Baehne on 09 Apr 2010 at 9:17 am #

    For jazzlady.

    Dick Haymes was the vocalist with Harry James at that period. He went on to be a movie star and was one of Rita Hayworths husbands for a while if I am not mistaken. He was also born in Argentina.
    Trivia: Connie Haynes, who sang with TD was given her name by HJ when she sang with his band. James/Haynes.

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